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In this recorded-on-New-Year’s-Eve installment of AWO, Gerald reviews the recently-concluded Gainax anime series Panty and Stocking With Garterbelt…eventually.
The original title was going to be “Now I’m Going to Have to Cut Ya. That’s the RRRRRUUUle” but House Party 3 isn’t something we should be reminding people of.
Somewhere along the line we end up talking about the Tokyo non-existent youth bill, the Fall 2010 anime season (mostly just Iron Man and Star Driver), and how VOTOMS and Mobile Police Patlabor are better than the current anime season which is airing now. Not present in this recording: how OAVs are what’s keeping us alive in 2011, what with the greatness of Mazinkaiser SKL and Gundam Paul Chapman Unicorn.
PS: I would never put anything at the end of this recording solely to confuse listeners. Oh no, not I.
87 Replies to “Anime World Order Show # 91 – Breaking the RRRRRUUUle”
The director for Kimagure Orange Road was another guy who’s also named Osamu Kobayashi (same kanji name too). It’s easy to get confused, but that’s why I submitted the error report on ANN….
Osamu Kobayashi wasn’t fired from GAINAX for his TTGL episode.(he *was* a Madhouse employee before, but not a GAINAX one), but a producer for the show did step down from his position because he was defending the show on 2ch and made some “offensive” comments. Imaishi and Kobayashi are good friends, so it’s no surprise Imaishi brought Kobayashi back for his next show, even with the (completely undeserved and ignorant) negative feedback that the TTGL episode got.
The term “off-model” is a positive to me when describing Kobayashi’s episode. Expressive animation demands it. “Character design consistency” be damned.
I didn’t think the change in art style for the transformation scenes were cynical. It’s not so different as assigning an animator to a particular scene due to his style. Like how in the Gurren Lagann OP you can see Hisashi Mori’s animation for the robot transformation, Akira Amemiya animating Lagann punching the Gunmen, directly followed by Yoh Yoshinari animating the final explosion. 3 very different animators and styles for the climax of the OP. Sakuga otaku (and Imaishi is one too) notice these different styles contrasting and complementing each other all the time. Though I guess this time everybody and anybody could easily tell the difference and opinions vary on the results…. However, I am glad that this show made some more people aware of the different episodic staff.
As it’s been brought to my attention that some of 4chan’s users strongly dislike us for a variety of reasons, (note: I don’t dislike /a/ or /m/ outright, but the discussions move too fast for me to keep up with so I never read the site) one of which was “we didn’t respond to your correction,” let me at least remedy the one:
Your corrections to what we said are accurate. This episode was recorded without notes and while neither of us were in front of a computer to check things. Gerald was mistaken; you are correct! This sort of thing actually happens very often. It has happened in the past and it will continue to happen. Feel free to continue pointing these things out as they are encountered. I may not always respond, and I may in fact respond with “yeah, well I don’t fucking care,” but it’s good to have the correction on the record anyway.
So that’s that one out of the way. I can’t really do much about the rest, so those guys are free to continue hating us for the other reasons, but I want that one off the table at least.
The producer on TTGL who stepped down was Takami Akai, for his controversial remarks that those who didn’t like the show were “hoe-ass niggaz, mo’-ass-niggaz, Mario Winans ‘I Don’t Wanna Know’-ass niggaz, too timid to check a hoe-ass niggaz, washin’ the dishes and moppin’ the floor-ass niggaz.”
We’re only 8 days into the year and already this is probably the Post of the Year.
Because the only Geto Boys song I know is Mind of a Lunatic by way of Youtube’s Patrick Macias, I declare that the above post be set to the tune of this instead:
I don’t know where you got the idea that otaku don’t like Pansuto, since there’s a ton of fanart for it on pixiv, a good amount of C79 doujinshi for it, and a fair amount of JP twitter buzz. I think the only people who didn’t like it were the mentally retarded guys who never leave their houses…
As far as pinning down what Pansuto is, I don’t think it tries to be a comedy at all–it’s a showcase of talent: writers, directors, and animators doing whatever they want, however they want, to the best of their ability. It’s a party, and it’s just about having a good time. If the music was any indication, the show is more about dancing in your seat while watching it, rather than laughing at it.
Also, I think it’s funny how you namedrop Shinbou as someone otaku like because I like him. His stuff doesn’t get much doujinshi or fanart, nor does it sell all that well. Bakemonogatari only sold as well as it did because it had Nisioisin’s name on it.
The only show he really made that was barrage of pop culture references was Pani Poni Dash. And I guess Natsu no Arashi. Aside from those two, the rest of his comedies are character centric. Well, I suppose Zetsubou Sensei is dependent on knowing Japanese social issues. IF YOU KNEW THINGS, YOU’D KNOW THIS.
1. writing “pansuto” = go eat a dick
2. all that pixiv fanart is precisely my evidence for “ladies love Brief” since they’re the ones drawing most of it, and much of it features him
3. otaku must like Shinbo if he gets to make 10 shows a year
4. no, we were right, all his shows are garbage for exactly the reason cited
5. go eat another dick
MMMMMMMF MMMMMMMFFFFFF SO HARD TO TALK WITH THESE DICKS IN MY MOUTTHCCCCCKKMFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Most of the fanart is of Stocking, at least amongst the artists I follow. There’s one female artist though, and she does a lot of Brief x Panty. If anything it’s probably evenly split. Again, the ones who don’t like it in Japan are probably the small amount of mentally challenged otaku that people in the US stereotype all otaku to be.
I don’t really know why Shinbou gets 10 shows a year, since really, they don’t get good ratings, and no one buys them. If you looked at sales figures (there’s a 2ch thread for this (http://yunakiti.blog79.fc2.com/blog-entry-6475.html), it’s easy to read) you’d know this. I’d honestly be happier if he just made one really stellar show each year, since honestly, his output in 2010 was lacking.
But I tend to like his output, because I understand a lot of the Japanese cultural cues, and think what he puts out is generally well done. Not as good as his glory days with TSUKUYOMI -MOON PHASE- or SAYONARA ZETSUBOU SENSEI, but entertaining nonetheless.
I don’t really know why you assume otaku do x y and z when you can’t even speak or read Japanese to back up your claims, and only work off of broad assumptionsMMMMMMMMFFFFFFFFFFFF
Daryl, you are thirty years old. You shouldn’t be getting angry when someone corrects you. I have no idea why you are acting as if you are twelve.
One time you said, “On AWO, no one’s entitled to their opinion–they’re entitled to their informed opinion.” Daryl, “informed” goes way beyond checking ANN staff credits, buddy.
[You are actually correcting Gerald. I just think you have goofy hair and should be punished accordingly. –Daryl]
The correct response to Daryl is from Heathers: “I like to suck big dicks! Mm-mmm! I can’t get enough of them!”
If it’s OK to say TTGL (which, after all, sounds like text-speak), it should be OK to say “Pansuto”–that’s how it’s often abbreviated in Japan–but perhaps it’s considered too close to that dreaded word, pantsu.
It would be reasonable for anyone to assume that Shinbo’s shows were popular, based on how many there are–that’s what I would have assumed. For that very reason, your report that they really aren’t the most popular is quite interesting. Is it just another face of the idea that normal business sense doesn’t necessarily apply to the anime industry (or, should we say, to the internal Japanese market as a whole?). Is the thing that separates Shinbo from other directors is a greater work ethic, a desire to always be making things, as opposed to other directors who might wait for the right project, to be motivated? A rep for bringing things in on time without production hassles? Also, perhaps, a willingness to work with a smaller budget?
I get the impression that a number of anime directors (going back to Miyazaki) hold back from doing TV because they know they can’t work at their top talent level on television budgets–what’s the point of knowing how to brilliantly animate scenes when you know they won’t give you the money to do it?
Animation quality is certainly not the only kind of artistic merit in anime. Anno, who is a brilliant animator, showed off a variety of clever and playful ideas that didn’t involve cel count in Eva and–before he walked off the set–KareKano. But in a conversation with Ikuhara, it was evident he was immensely frustrated with TV anime–you can come up with all kinds of substitute ideas to make a show look interesting, but that still doesn’t remove the fact you can’t afford to animate it as well as you know you could. I find this question particularly interesting regarding Shinbo, because people might assume he represents a later generation of industry people than Anno, when in fact they’re close to the same age, and Shinbo entered the industry before Anno did.
This is just me, but I found the secret to watching SHAFTxSHINBO shows is to not worry too much about the references. It’s like watching Family Guy in a way. If you “get the joke” fine, if not then it’s no loss since you’re still watching it for the characters.
I imagine that Shinbo gets to direct SO many shows a year is the fact that they cost less to animate than other studios, although their animate budget seems to increase this past year.
Did you know that one of the Tokyo Governor Ishihara’s books “The Season of the Sun” was made into an anime AND that it released by CPM under the Tales of Classic Japanese Literature?
For that matter, he also wrote the first scenario for Space Battleship Yamato Resurrection way back in 1992/93 and his name was still in the credits when the film was released in 2009. He is credited with creating the villains, called the SUS. It’s generally agreed by fans that it stands for Space United States and was originally in keeping with Ishihara’s anti-American stance during the 90s.
Fortunately for us, we can watch the film without this baggage. But it rankled some of the locals at the time it came out.
Just for the record, the guy who asked your opinion on the Samurai X: Reflections OVA is correct in his assertation that Daryl is quoted in the Wikipedia article. Here’s the quote:
“Daryl Surat of Otaku USA said that audiences should not watch Reflection. Surat describes the first half of the work as retelling the television series ‘so frantically that you can’t comprehend what you’re seeing unless you already saw the story!’ He added that the other half ‘very hurriedly’ attempts to cover the final portion of the Rurouni Kenshin manga and ‘fails.’ Surat said that the ending has ‘nothing to do at all with anything Nobuhiro Watsuki wrote or approves of.'”
Anyway, I think this is probably the most positive review I’ve ever heard for P&Sw/G. Would it be comparable to “Crank” and “Crank: High Voltage,” in that most of people find it repulsive, but it’s something “new and exciting” that pushes the boundries of the medium?
I get what you guys are saying about Panty and Stocking With Garterbelt, but I don’t know, it seems like the Vince Russo of anime. It tries something different, but It doesn’t seem to care about quality at all. Its all about “how can we shock people this week?” and I just can’t get down with that.
I’m glad that they thought to do something outside their usual box, but I’d much rather they would have worked to make a show of real quality instead of something like this. Of course, after this year I wonder if they know what real quality means anymore.
This post is hilarious.
If a show is well made, shows that plenty of skill and effort went into it and is genuinely fun (as opposed to ironically so), it’s a quality show. If it keeps you hooked and entertained, it’s a quality show.
“Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt” is certainly a diverse show, but your review managed to encapsulate what makes the show an interesting watch (approach, creativity, action, experimentation) as well as the shows real and perceived flaws (scrip, references, bodily fluids).
I would have to disagree with the assertion that “You’ll know within the first 15 minutes whether or not you like the show”. I wasn’t offended by that first episode, but I thought it was pretty bad and assumed the show would be more of the same. I still feel it’s one the shows weakest episodes. Episodes that follow on from that manage to be much better (for the most part).
Possibly your first Australian listener to have finished hearing your new episode, I would just like to say that it was fantastic and that just as I was beginning to re-listen to your old episodes you bring out a new one to tantalize and enthrall me for another hour of my life.This may sound like complete crap but that is due to the fact it is 1 in the morning here. You never stop bringing in something new for me to watch or read. I hope you will continue your podcast for another 5 years or more, well past your Otaku expiry date, since expiry are just a matter of interpretation. I just sit around waiting for Volumes 1-3 of Peepo Choo to arrive in the mail, knowing that you have only ever steered me wrong once, and it was Daryl’s fault! Keep up the great work and maybe sometime into 2011 you can record a full episode with all 3 of you each reviewing an anime or manga with some news and general conversation(Crazy Rants) thrown in for good measure. Until then, Goodnight Folks.
The Japanese do make charts. They’re not on moonphase, they just float about on 2ch. However the way they superimpose the writing onto it takes over the image and is impossible to translate back into English again. So the charts are generally made from scratch with all the info taken from moonphase.
*Your friendly neighbourhood chart-maker
What is more pitiful: not hanging out with other people on New Years, or being with your folks on New Years? I was with my family, and I think that choice c) being in close proximity with someone you can fondle without threat of imprisonment, is what we should be doing when we wait for a new year.
You spoke of Real Otaku. Has you read/heard word of the Patton Oswalt article where he talks about Otaku of his time and people now who have it all too easy.
Panty and Stocking are sisters. They refer to each other as such often.
I really liked Panty and Stocking, and its surprising that I went from not laughing at episode 1 to loving tuning into the show every week. It was appointment streaming, for sure.
I think that the show was not only offensive to people when it comes to it’s gross out humor, sex and profanity.
I think it offended people with it’s “American” style, it’s lack of typical anime archetypes, and its manic pace.
For me, I am not offended by anything whatsoever. If you kill cats in an anime, I’m not going to protest. I might flinch, I might become ill, but It’s anime, and I save my outrage for real events that are outrageous, not fiction.
I cannot defend Panty & Stocking (With Garterbelt) when it comes to comedy, because you have to try hard to impress me in that department.
What I will defend the show on is its “throw it on the wall and see what sticks” style of creativity. I think that most of the offbeat ideas they had for episode concepts (the dad who becomes a Ghost, the one room, one camera episode, Chuck to the Future, Stocking dating an ugly Ghost, etc) are great simply because they are not completely predictable.
I will take the worst episode of Panty and Stocking over any episode of a cookie cutter harem show/eroge adaptation any day. That is my Rrrrrrrule!
I have to say, the very LAST classic anime title I expected to hear as the go-to for this season was Armored Trooper Votoms. I hope everyone is remembering to start with the “Roots of Ambition” OAV prior to episode 1, and skipping “Pailsen Files” entirely since they’re out of continuity. If you watch that between the OAV and the series (which is when it’s meant to take place) you’ll question your very sanity in TV episode 1.
Looking forward to lots of Votoms discussions in the future! ‘Cause I can’t look forward to them in the past!
I actually tracked down the old CPM DVD sets of VOTOMS last summer for like $30 as I heard you on ANNCast recommend it, and I have to say it did live up to expectations. Definitely something sci-fi fans should check out especially if you like original Gundam.
As for Panty and Stocking I definitely think you need to get the references to find that show funny. I started watching after I had heard about the Transformers one and having grown up a TF fan they nailed that one out of the park. Could definitely tell they guys making it knew what they were talking about which what I think makes that show work.
About the issue of the popularity of moe with women versus men; it’s been my experience that women can and do like some series that are considered moe–we have to be careful of thinking that there’s moe for men and bishies for women, when there’s no RRRRUUUle that a certain gender has to like only one and not the other. A woman who likes Camilla d’Errico is not going to flee from the sight of Range Murata. I knew a woman who considered herself a feminist, who was concerned about the role and depiction of women in comics, and who also loved Robot magazine. People are much better company than theories.
The “secret,” as it were, is that while a lot of moe shows are heavily sexualized by male fans (and by now, are made with the understanding that’s going to happen–perhaps Studio Pierrot permitted themselves a little innocence back in the days of Creamy Mami), much of this sexualization happens on the fan level–pixiv, doujinshi–and not in the series itself.
The actual series may be mainly cute and silly, and cute and silly cuts across both genders. A female fan who isn’t interested in porno of the characters (some may be) need never encounter that side of it, or if she does, may be likely to dismiss it as perverted rather than expected. Perhaps some of the most successful moe series are those that are careful to leave the option of how to “read” the series up to the viewer–meaning, they restrain themselves from being too ecchi in the show itself. Put another way, if moe characters are read with a “male gaze,” they can also be read with a “female gaze,” which may be different, but still favorable.
At the end of the day, cute is cute, and the issue of whether it’s disturbingly cute is larger than anime or Japan–I mean, Precious Moments is moe as fuck.
Lately it’s been occurring to me that there’s a side of the moe phenom that doesn’t get talked about much, and that’s the emotional need that it fulfills. It’s easy to dismiss that as some form of mental deficiency, but at its base is the same need that is addressed in every medium of fiction at some level: love.
Get your eye-rolling out of the way here and I’ll continue.
Stories about the need for love have been fueling fiction for centuries. For most of us, it’s as vital as food and oxygen. Without it, you starve and suffer. Over time the lack of it can be as damaging to the psyche as sustained malnutrition is to the body. And for some, the need for it can make them desperate enough to see it in phantom form the way a starving man can dream up a phantom meal.
What does it say about Japanese culture that moe could become a phenom in such a brief span as a decade? This is about more than just not being able to see the pink. Ten minutes in the bathroom is enough to quiet that urge for a time. But wherever a culture comes up short in supplying an emotional need, a subculture rises to fill it.
Sure, there are probably some sexual deviants in the pack who just look at moe as a way to get their freak on, but I think they’re the exception to the rule. It’s very likely that true moe adherents see it as a very private and personal thing that they simply don’t know how to get any other way. How do you find openness from a real person when your entire culture is oriented against openness?
This is not my attempt to excuse moe in any way. I simply see it as a response to a deficit. I’d like for that aspect of it to become part of the discourse, in addition to our contempt for those who manipulate it for profit.
Indeed. In fact, I agree with this sentiment so much that I myself conveyed it more or less verbatim two years ago in the April 2009 issue of Otaku USA (albeit under an imposed word count due to print media being what it is).
It appears this podcast about the not-particularly-moe Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt has invited yet another of the billion iterations of the “but like, what IS moe? Like, what is it REALLY?” discussion that is so the opposite of things I care to read about. I would ask anyone wishing to partake of that discussion AGAIN to note that there’s already a 200+ reply, 9500+ view thread still raging on strong over at the ANN forums. Yes, even if you’re already posting about it over there. Don’t think I can’t see!
That seems to be the rule, rather than the exception. The ANN podcast that’s mentioned below mentions that moe is part of a system that I think they’re saying supplants the restrictiveness of the culture, alongside soaplands, image clubs, hostess clubs, and sundry other exercises.
Moe seems to fill the same need that fuels the compulsion of many Hollywood films to have a romantic subplot, with all the subtext that thing entails being wrapped around a brick that’s tossed in your face at high speed.
ANNCast just did an entire podcast on moe. The moe hordes continue to attack.
With wildarmsheero talking about the graces of kanon and clannad.
Despite ultimately not liking Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt, I have to wholeheartedly agree with Gerald and Daryl’s assessment: being random and making pop culture references doesn’t automatically make something good, no matter how competently stylized it is. I didn’t get the impression it was breaking the mold the way you guys felt it did, but that’s because it vividly reminded me of the Gainax show FLCL, which has the exact same flaws.
If you’re reading this comment and feel similarly, I’d recommend you watch Tentai Senshi Sun Red. It’s less bombastic for sure, but hilariously unpredictable and the perfect example of a Japanese anime being full of references that WILL go over your head, but still managing to be funny anyway. Gerald reviewed it on AWO a few episodes back, but honestly each episode is less than 15 minutes and flies by, so just check it out.
I think the closest American corollary to Panty & Stocking is Superjail! The show is crass and violent for violence’s sake, and not always funny. But it’s animation is so breathtaking and imaginative that as a visual feast, it’s the closest thing to carnal perfection that Adult Swim has ever put out.
All in all, Gerald and Daryl managed to enthusiastically review a show I don’t even like, and still managed to be very entertaining. Thanks dudes. The fact that the two of you were in the same room made the whole thing feel more relaxed and natural than your shows usually are. I dug it.
Making references to other anime is the only thing Gainax can do, other than in-between work for studios behind schedule or short on staff. That’s why they lucked out that Eva came along right in the beginning of the “asshole whiny teen” fad. [See My So-Called Life and anything from Larry Clark as another example of this phenomenon.]
Larry Clark’s stuff is about “whiny teens” ??? You mean Shinji fucked a girl while she was asleep and gave her AIDS? I don’t see the comparison. The kids in, uh, “Kids” didn’t whine. They hung out and did bad stuff that makes adults cringe.
[NO NO NO THIS STOPS RIGHT HERE, AAARGH WHY IS IT THAT EVERY SINGLE GODDAMNED TIME I APPROVE A D.Z. POST YOU MAROONS LATCH ONTO THE BAITING PART AND ENABLE THE DERAIL]
I dunno the dude from Adam.
I totally disagree. I don’t think P&S was unfunny, but it went for “naughtiness” and references more than it went for actual joke telling. I think if I could copare it to anything, it definitely would not be Superjail. It would be invader Zim, but Zim was a lot funnier and clever.
What? Invader Zim was a kid’s cartoon. Both Superjail! and Panty and Stocking are cartoons created for an older audience which mostly abandon narrative structure in favor of bad taste and absurdity.
Just because Invader Zim was a “kid’s cartoon” doesn’t mean the comparison was invalid. Have you seen Zim? I was comparing them in feel rather than content. I didn’t mean they were both screaming “Motherucker!” (that’s my favorite P&S quote)
In terms of referencing things Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt and FLCL are alike, but that’s really about it. I hated FLCL mostly because I hate the maniac style of comedy that speed things up and the joke is that things are sped up, which makes it funny, right? I also hate Excel Saga if you couldn’t guess.
I have watched virtually all of Sunred. I think Sunred relies far less on referential humor and is far more ground in a typical story style than P&S. I do love the show though, probably as much if not more than P&S, but I’ve already reviewed the show.
I can’t agree with SuperJail! SuperJail! is a show for stoners and that’s it. There’s long sequences of just pulsing images and flashing lights, not something I can get in to.
WOW, some real comedy haters here. Comedy is the harshest battleground, so I should have expected it. I like FLCL a bit more as a comedy than Excel Saga. I think there is more humor there you can get with jokes that stand on their own- without obscure references.
I would aslo enjoy FLCL if it were not the comedy.
Come on, Gerald, now tell me you also hate the FLCL soundtrack.
I’m surprised that you two did not mention why it’s popular amongst females. [I thought Gerald did say this…? –Daryl] There is actually a strong sense of female empowerment throughout this show. Panty and Stocking do whatever they want, sex whoever they want, and make their own rules. You don’t really see female anime characters do this with anywhere near as much vulgarity. They aren’t cheerleaders nor are they there to provide emotional support to a male lead. No, they are there to live life the way they want without any regret or consequence. Say what you will about the show, but I think that attitude is what drew as many people to the show as it did.
I watched this whole series in an attempt to relate to the new generation of anime fans I have met at various conventions. While it’s the only anime from Fall 2010 that seemed to be any bit unique, I was bored most of the time while watching it.
The last couple episodes are kind of fun but I don’t care to rewatch those episodes, or any of the series. I think one of the episodes was about stopping a ghost that caused people to find sexual pleasure in nose picking and that was it. Most of the episodes are forgettable because they have nothing going on in them content-wise.
I also don’t give a shit about G1 Transformers (or the franchise at all) so that episode did nothing for me. I think I laughed 4-6 times during the whole series. I have nothing against crude humor in anime. In fact, I rewatched Golden Boy recently and still found it hilarious. Maybe the execution of PSG is forced or maybe it’s hard to find what PSG does to be funny because the characters never have any redeeming qualities like Kintaro Oe does.
Despite that, Gainax had an audience in mind for this show, and made something that they really ended up liking.
Yeah, it was totally mentioned why females like P&S on the podcast.
Hmmm…. I don’t know how I missed that since I commented right after I finished listening last night. Was female empowerment discussed? I don’t remember hearing that either. I think it’s one of the things that stand out in the show since it’s not usually seen in anime.
Yes, they mentioned that Panty & Stocking (specifically Panty) is not the typical anime girl who is weak or needs saving. It was a long show, in your defense.
I’ve been watching Star Driver, and I don’t think the show is as clear-cut in its “this appeals to guys” and “this appeals to girls” as Gerald thinks. You can see this in the main character, who’s this combination of, yes, bishounen good looks, but also a kind of over-the-top machismo and never-say-die attitude. His robot is similar, in that while the fencer-like design might turn off a lot of hardcore mecha fans who are more used to the Gundams and such, it’s also elegant and fanciful in a way that not even Nagano’s stuff is, and I think that design can appeal to both sexes. I’ve found Star Driver to be more about a surreal, yet structured sense of campiness (but with actual story), and I think that isn’t something so easily boxed in by gender.
As for the director, I believe he never worked on a giant robot show, not that he never watched one. I might be mistaken though.
Now in regards to Panty & Stocking, I think what drew me in is that the show is really strong in how shallow it tries to be. It’s willing to throw away development for the sake of a joke, and then run that joke into the ground, but that act of ruining the joke is itself funny. The fact that the creators are actually not all that beholden to the concept of the show itself makes it that much more enjoyable.
Also I think my favorite moment of a gag which is funny-if-you-get-it but still-funny-if-you-don’t is when Stocking-as-Megatron cleaves her way out of the refrigerator, makes this hilarious “GUHAHAHAHA” laugh, and talks about how “the sugary stuff is already in my tummy!” Just the presentation of that scene alone makes me approve of PSG.
I think you might have misunderstood my complaints about Star Driver. While I’m not a fan of the show or storyline and while I hate the mecha designs, my real complaint is it that this is a show like Code Geass that spends an enormous amount of time on fanservice and in doing so alienates either the male or female viewers. I don’t care to see cute boys with long hair fawning over each other throughout the show and I’m sure that most female viewers don’t want to see entire conversations going on between female characters take place with the camera under the table looking up at their camel toe.
This sort of thing is unnecessary and annoying, just give me a show with good action, good characters and don’t diminish that with desperately trying to appeal to both sides. I’m also by NO MEANS a prude, if they want to put out a show targeted towards guys or girls that has tons of tits or long flowing hair and guys kissing, that’s fine, I’ll avoid the latter, but combining the two hurts the good parts of the show.
Neither of those shows spends as much time on fanservice as something like Godannar did, Gerald, which I admittedly don’t remember if you actually liked or not.
Not that it matters, in the end, since I don’t have anything close to such a concern myself…because I really don’t mind watching either of those shows (and a few others that could be added to the same list) for the specific reasons I found them interesting or entertaining, period, regardless of whatever fanservice is included or who it’s aimed at. If such things are not for me, I’ll focus on something else. Simple enough.
Maybe I’m just too used to it, perhaps, so I can understand how that could bother or distract other people to a greater or lesser extent…though I would still say turning it into some sort of automatic allergic reaction seems more than a little exaggerated and yes, at least borderline prudish.
The way you’ve put it, even if you didn’t have a problem with Star Driver as a whole, the story or its mecha designs, that reason alone would turn you off the whole thing.
Oh well…the way I see it, Star Driver still has a lot more in common with Revolutionary Girl Utena than with anything else in particular in terms of structure, setting and formula. The actual content and the topics covered aren’t identical, of course, but that’s to be expected.
Star Driver spends PLENTY of time fanservice and I didn’t even bring up Godannar since it in no way disproves my point at all. My point is that there are so many shows out there that go out of their way to shoe horn in this sort of fanservice. I don’t have a problem with the concept of fanservice and I know that there’s no way that fanservice will be “part of the story” or some shit. My point is, has been, and always will be, that this is NOT the way to make a show appeal to both males and females in the same show, do it through characters and storyline. So far Star Driver hasn’t done anything for me character wise and story wise that I’ve not seen done better, so I gave up the show after about six episodes, and was left with this show that every episode has some generally pointless fanservice stuffed in it and otherwise left me with little else.
Would you consider Simoun as something that was able to able to appeal to both males and females for fanservice?
Good job on the Panty & Stocking review. Fun show. Would like to hear Clarissa’s thoughts on it eventually.
Changing the subject, I watched the first episode of Wolverine and it was pretty good. Logan looks a little more like his old self instead of Vampire Hunter Joe Dirt and he shreds A.I.M. agents and yakuza goons in stylish Madhouse fashion. Also, I believe Rin Taro only directs the first episode, it’s someone else for the rest of the show (Hiroshi Aoyama, storyboarder/director for episodes of Master Keaton and Hi no Tori).
I think they missed an opportunity to take it up a notch. When Panty and Stocking were inside Brief they should’ve end up in his nuts. The ending should’ve just been a shot of P & S jammed in Garterbelt’s mouth. Leaving you to figure out how that happened.
It’s suggested that Brief is representing the audience. That it’s a slap in the face. Still, he seems to be submissive by choice(DoWhaChaLike). Also, doesn’t one episode suggest that he has a big or at least powerful prong?
I’m here wondering where Daryl got the idea that “male anime fans are only interested in child pornography” and “maybe that’s how they roll in Team Japan” from Gerald talking about the fanservice in Star Driver. I didn’t think that Star Driver would have loli fanservice in it! Is there anybody under twelve in that show?
And what’s with that other line following that? It gave me flashbacks to Daryl’s Violence Jack review! That’s not a good thing to experience while waiting for a taxi at my local Tesco!
Maybe he got that idea from all the underage characters being depicted sexually in anime.
So by your reasoning, everyone under 18 is a child?
Wait, wouldn’t that also mean that “all female anime fans are only interested in gay child pornography?” Is this blanket summation only going to get more and more wrinkled the more I think about it?
First of all, I apologize for going on about that other subject. I performed a brief cleansing rite that consisted of reading REAL DEAL #2, which contains a line not heard in any anime ever made: “Sheeit, son! We just want to kill some dagoes!” Well, maybe someone says it in Baccano.
This year is, among other things, the 20th anniversary of Princess Maker (designed by the aforementioned Takami Akai), and I consider the words of Chris Rock, who saw his one task in raising a daughter to keep her off the pole. “I mean, they don’t grade fathers, but if your daughter is a stripper…you fucked up.” In Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt, Gainax learned to drop the pretense, and acknowledge what has always been true: hoe and moe are separated by just–appropriately enough–four letters.
Although Stocking is ka-wa-ii–and gets more of the fanart–Panty is the real heroine of the show, both events-wise and, shall we say, philosophically. In some series, a divine girl descends from heaven and takes up residence in a local shrine, to sweep, make tea, and, every once in a while, hold hands. That’s not Panty’s style, who gets more rides than the Bible’s got psalms (i.e., 150 >, plus 71 for the selahs). After her, you realize that you can’t call Shinji a bitch any more–the word isn’t worthy of him. Panty is–a bit–like side-scroller harem hero Ataru Moroboshi, in that she’s an annoying idiot who’s constantly hitting on the opposite sex, tailed fruitlessly by the one person she won’t hit on, someone whom the viewership finds attractive. You will have already noted the crucial difference between these two characters. Is there in fact a true female equivalent of Ataru in anime–which would mean, if the show was written so that guys always found Panty to be a repulsive creep, yet the audience still liked her?
The show sold me with episode #3, part 2’s “Pulp Addiction,” which dealt sensitively with a problem men face–one that, besides the opening scene, was pretty much ignored in The End of Evangelion. In fact P&Sw/G did faster work than Evangelion, which I didn’t get into until episode #4. And then, of course, came episode #5’s part 2, “Vomiting Point.” Perhaps I’m reading too much into this, but there may be a little feedback in the way Daten City is portrayed as an American town full of cartoony characters and good times, whereas its Little Tokyo is portrayed as a dreary place full of miserable, ordinary, and quite ugly people (I’m not sure, by the way, that as many people would be grossed out at P&Sw/G as you might think–the cute and stylized visuals have a moderating effect on the outrage; also, things are almost always played for laughs, rather than some kind of goregrind desecration).
Visually, I thought the historical scenes in #11, part 1, “Once Upon a Time in Garterbelt” were some of the best work in the entire series; the art direction was wonderful stuff, reminiscent of what Paul Hartley’s team used to do with Walt Disney in the 1950s or UPA’s work in Our Mr. Sun. Did anyone notice that when the Crusader and the Muslim armies confront each other, the two civilizations literally “CLASH!” If that’s how they meant the joke, then in the words of the outgoing governor of California, “Dat’s a gud vun.” I was also pleased, and a little jealous, at the different Slave Labor Graphics references in the show–Panty is even wearing their t-shirt at one point. You expect anime to know about Batman and Wolverine, but not American indie labels.
One episode I might be expected to like but didn’t was #10, part 3–the music video one, “HELP! We are Angels,” simply because while P&Sw/G has first-class club music (as AWO points out, people were fiending for the OST in a way they rarely do), it hasn’t got a rock bone in its body; that was FLCL’s supreme expertise. It’s the same reason I can’t get into K-On!; if it’s about a band, I have to actually like their music. I know that’s missing the point; you’re just supposed to enjoy the way they sit around and eat their pudding. The music reference I enjoyed the most in P&Sw/G was actually in an episode the show discussed, the one spent entirely on the couch, #11, part 2, “Nothing to Room,” where Brief tries to get some details straight about Factory Records. There’s a line from 24 Hour Party People that reminds me a little of Gainax: “Factory Records are not actually a company…we are an experiment in human nature.” And if Evangelion was their Joy Division, P&Sw/G is their Happy Mondays. Plastic face, can’t smile the white out.
You say Panty is the heroine of the show except that, SPOILERS, there’s some out-of-left-field twist where the remaining characters have to go on an Inu Yasha style fetch quest.
what “inu yasha style”? how could this possibly be the set-up for some epic quest?
it’s a straight line of pieces that even the villain wants them to collect fast so he can use brief’s dick to take over the world; it’ll probably be resolved in two episodes max.
Well, of course, if that quest never materializes into an actual sequel, Panty will remain the heroine of the story as it stands ^_^
MMM, no, she might be a triple agent. I think it would be hilarious if they came back and just hand-waved it away.
Finally, a little bit more talk about Patlabor, but thats not enough to satisfy me. I need a full on Patlabor review that spans both OAVs and the TV series. If not Patlabor, then talk about possibly the greatest comedy ever made; Urusei Yatsura. Somewhat related because it had lots of crossover between staff and cast.
lol?Who the hell hated Dead Leaves aside from ANN?
Most of the people who cared enough to watch it and didn’t just look at the art style for a second and think “ummmmmmmm… :)” loved it.
[I honestly have no response for this. I can say that in all the years since it’s come out, of the few people I’ve met that even saw Dead Leaves in the first place, none of them particularly enjoyed it. The general consensus is “it looks pretty cool, I guess, but it isn’t really that entertaining.” In fact, right now I am having a very hard time finding very many strongly positive reviews of the title at all save for one or two. Your assertion that there is some silent majority of people who love this cartoon is not supported by any observable metric. Or can all those people simply be written off as not having “actually” watched it? –Daryl]
Um, I hated Dead Leaves and I didn’t pay a penny for it, got a screener copy via a Suncoast manager’s meeting goodies bag.
To me it seemed specifically constructed to appeal to the ‘where’s the next Akira?’ crowd, the ones who wanted that ‘buzz’ of sex/violence/swears and didn’t really care about story. The kind of thing that, I’ve always assumed, one watches when high.
It held nothing for me.
If drugs are good enough for Yoshinobu Nishizaki and Haruki Kadokawa, they are surely good enough for the fans.
it was designed for people who like cartoons being cartoony
Ah, the John Krisfalusi Defense.
Cartoony is meaningless if you have no investment in the characters, the historical context or the base conceit of the concept.
Tex Avery was brilliant. People imitating Tex Avery completely miss the point. So sez me.
well let’s check out some really popular anime websites:
Seems to me like most people thought it was good. [Wait, MAL and the ANN Encyclopedia is your “proof”? Really? No seriously, REALLY?– Daryl]
Hell, what else would be a better indicator of what thousands of people thought of it? I’m not saying they’re any good or implying that their userbases are good critics of what is good and bad… but MAL and ANN are pretty huge sites and their ratings cover a wider audience than just… a handful of people you met.
I’m honestly not sure how you can look at Panty and Stocking and think “this is unique and worth giving a shot” then look at Dead Leaves and think “THIS IS JUST SHIT”. I understand liking it less since Panty and Stocking had way better characterization and I guess Pandy and Retro might be harder to like since they go around killing cops and stuff… but just saying “IT WAS SHIT” and giving that as your only reason seems a bit silly to me. it’s like… it really had much of the same humor as Panty and Stocking with less references (this is another thing I disagree with – aside from the Eraserhead and Transformers parodies and a handful of other stuff, most of Panty and Stocking’s humor did not really come from parodying things at all – it came from visual humor and funny character interaction) and Panty and Stocking episode 6 was pretty much Dead Leaves in TV show form.
And once again I still find it a little silly how you can look at Panty and Stocking and think “yea this has some flaws but it’s worth a shot” then look at Dead Leaves and think “this is just shit, don’t watch it”. What exactly made you hate it so much?
I mean… they’re so insanely similar, it’s just that Dead Leaves is more gory and action-centric. in the end it’s the same type of wacky slapstick, cartoony, potentially gross insanity that made up 70% of the humor of both. was the western “parodies” (90% of them weren’t parodies anyway) and the fact that the characters were independent and not moe really enough to elevate the show to a status above “awful shit” for you guys?
Dead Leaves was basically like a crazy violent video game that allows you to just go nuts – you’re not supposed to care about morality and whether the characters would be likable in a real world scenario or not, you’re just supposed to enjoy the ride. as far as I know Daryl likes ‘mindless fun’, supposed-“REVOLTING WORST ANIME EVER” OVAs like Apocalypse Zero so he should be able to relate to this better.
All right, rather than explaining in words, let me use a real-world example to demonstrate the fundamental flaw in your logic pattern here:
You are using the fact that Dead Leaves has a MAL score of 7.44 (as voted on by ~7000 people) and is favorited by 110 users as your justification that it is primarily loved by fans, such that negative reviews of it are an anomaly. What you are failing to take into account is that MAL ranks among the dregs of the Internet.
The anime series Kiss x Sis, which is basically about a guy trying to decide which of his two sisters he wants to have sex with more, has a MAL score of 7.66 (as voted on by ~ 11,000 people) and is favorited by 174 users. Does that imply that Kiss x Sis is primarily loved by anime fans, such that negative reviews of it are an anomaly? Let me answer that for you: the substantial majority consensus among fans and critics alike is that Kiss x Sis is, as you would paraphrase Gerald’s assessment of Dead Leaves, “JUST SHIT.” [Note: this is not the time or place to discuss the merits or demerits of Kiss x Sis, so if you’re thinking of doing so, save it.]
I do not believe there is any inconsistency or hypocrisy in enjoying Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt yet not enjoying Dead Leaves. A typical Panty and Stocking storyline is less than 10 minutes long. By contrast, Dead Leaves is about 50 minutes long. That’s roughly five times the length. There simply is not enough substance (or even style!) to sustain its very limited premise for such an extended duration.
THAT is what separates the two. THAT is why they are not particularly similar. If Dead Leaves was 80% shorter and just part of an anthology, it would be great! But it just goes on…and on…and on…and it’s the same thing over…and over…and over again. After a couple iterations I no longer care about the animation quality or the visual design. I’m just bored by it. Brevity is the key, here.
I love both, but I kinda do agree that at first it was strange to see people enjoying Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt and not liking Dead Leaves. However, after thinking about it, I think it comes down to what you’re expecting to get out of it. The biggest enjoyment you can get out of Dead Leaves is the obvious way in which every animator animated their particular segment.
From Takeshi Koike to Yoh Yoshinari to Yusuke Yoshigaki to Chikashi Kubota to Shin Itagaki to Masahito Yamashita to Sushio to Yasunori Miyazawa (and the others in-between), the contrast between them is so stark and the way Imaishi just lets those guys loose is the main attraction. It’s the same reason as to why people enjoyed Birth (another movie that you hate, I know). It’s animation porn, an animator showcase, etc. If you came into it expecting something else, then I can’t blame you for not liking it. It’s definitely one of those “sakuga otaku need only apply” kind of deals (though the music *is* fantastic, so Imaishi does have good taste in that department).
I’m looking forward to Redline, since it looks to be in the same vein. Koike let Shinya Ohira actually draw people instead of relegating him to special effects, so you know what kind of philosophy he subscribes to.
On another note, Imaishi is still employed at GAINAX, since he’s on their staff list now: http://www.gainax.co.jp/gainax_staff/0041.html
Man not really, I think this “only sakuga otaku need apply” way of thinking just encourages stuff like AWO saying Birth is irredeemable trash because only a really hardcore animation nerd would like it and that as a movie it fails. I think that’s silly, I showed Birth to a lot of people who aren’t sakuga nerds and they thought it was flawed but okay and really fun at times due to the creative animation and I showed the same people Dead Leaves and they thought it was absolutely badass, stylish and hilarious. And really it’s not like Dead Leaves had that much more characterization than Panty & Stocking did – I guess it just had a bigger impact on people because of STRONG EMPOWERING FEMALE LEADS the same way that Samus Aran became worshiped in the gaming community despite being an empty shell of a pseudo-character (not saying this applies to Panty & Stocking, I think they are great and lovable characters that are very fun to watch… they just have a one-track mind and aren’t developed much)
People who like cool animation and are willing to watch a movie because it looks cool and has creative unique visuals don’t ALL all read sakugawiki and Anipages Daily and can recognize every key animator in their favorite movies…. in fact I’m willing to be that the great majority do not.
“Does that imply that Kiss x Sis is primarily loved by anime fans, such that negative reviews of it are an anomaly?” Actually yes because most people who would be disgusted by it aren’t going to even know about it let alone want to write a review about it and voice their disapproval. Anime fans these days mostly come in two varieties – kids and mildly nerdy normal people who watch anime on TV and in theaters and maybe download something occasionally… and people who watch stuff like Kiss X Sis. There are far, FAR more people who do this than you’d normally think – believe it or not I’ve seen AMVs on Youtube made by girls with Twilight music of freaking SEIKON NO QWASER.
And even if this weren’t the case and Kiss X Sis’ existence would be common knowledge with people who just watch Naruto or Miyazaki films or something… Kiss X Sis and Dead Leaves are two totally different things. Dead Leaves is just crazy bloody cartoon violence – something that most people can deal with far better than pedophilia and pseudo-incest.
And I’m not sure what to think of the term “anime critic” I think the Western anime fandom has a long way to go before “anime critic” can actually *mean* anything and you can make a distinction between them and just… regular anime fans. The only site I can think of that’s famous and relevant enough for that kind of thing is ANN and their review of Dead Leaves was incredibly flawed solely on the basis that they *failed to realize that it was a comedy*.
“I do not believe there is any inconsistency or hypocrisy in enjoying Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt yet not enjoying Dead Leaves.”
My issue wasn’t with liking one and personally disliking the other, it was you saying that Dead Leaves is just shit even though it was technically an extended Pant and Stocking episode. You found this boring and I understand that but judging by the way you talked about it, you made it seem like it was completely different or something and didn’t have almost all of the same merits.
“There simply is not enough substance (or even style!) to sustain its very limited premise for such an extended duration.”
Honestly it’s just meant to be a crazy action-comedy; the comedy is very creative and the action is very creative so I’m not sure what the issue here is – there’s really nothing like it on the market except for other Hiroyuki Imaishi shows. And it was just 40 minutes – about as long as two Panty and Stocking episodes. Even people like Roger Ebert can unironically praise certain Jackie Chan movies that are literally just really impressive action with the occasional goofy comic relief because they’re well made and succeed at pleasing the audience they aimed for (as long as said audience isn’t “people with obscenely low standards in everything that can notice skill and effort”) so I’m not sure why this can’t extend to anime fandom.
Maybe this sounds really weird but I have this idea that I can’t get out of my head that even if you don’t personally like something, if you see that a lot of effort and skill and creativity went into it, you shouldn’t just call it a piece of shit and should make sure to give credit where it is due. There’s a lot of shows I didn’t like much because they weren’t my cup of tea but there is no way I would just call them irredeemable shit, and if I was a anime reviewer who valued creativity and actually has a considerable fanbase I would make sure to give credit where it is due.
I’ve seen both Dead Leaves and Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt. I didn’t like Dead Leaves. I enjoyed Panty and Stocking. The latter is demonstrably better than the former, in terms of coherence and even exploration of a theme in a couple of episodes. All Dead Leaves has going for it is a visual aesthetic, and that’s not enough to justify filling fifty minutes of screen time.
Just because people work hard on something doesn’t make it good. Dr. Uwe Boll works very hard on all his films, but that doesn’t mean In the Name of the King: A Dungeon Siege Tale is on the same level as The Lord of the Rings films, nor that liking one requires you to like the other.
if you watch Hiroyuki Imaishi shows like this for “exploration of a theme” you’re doing it wrong. if you seriously think “coherence” is what you should be basing the quality of such intentionally insane and nonsensical works on, you have pretty low standards and a very loose definition of the world “coherence”.
“Dr. Uwe Boll works very hard on all his films” which is why I also said “effort, skill and creativity” and not just “effort”. why do I even have to explain this.
If you watch Uwe Boll films for “skill and creativity”, you’re doing it wrong. If you think that actual competence in expressing something through an artistic medium is what you should be basing the quality of such intentionally crass and commercial works on, you have pretty high standards and a very strict definition of the words “skill and creativity”.
Oh wait, that’s not actually an argument.
yes because clearly surreal action-comedies that are meant to be offbeat, trippy, filled with weird action and hilariously insane couldn’t possibly be good and a cartoon that is meant to be cartoony and weird is clearly the same as an Uwe Boll film that is incoherent as a result of the guy’s incompetence.
you can’t seriously think that way so I’m willing to believe that you’re just defending Daryl’s opinion to the death even though it’s just that: an opinion… and it makes little sense to call something irredeemable shit when in reality you think it was good for the first half but dragged on for too long
Daryl can defend his own opinions. My opinion is that Dead Leaves is entirely unmemorable. I watched it once and it did nothing for me. The action wasn’t exciting, and the comedy wasn’t funny. That’s how I feel about it. If the intent of that show was, as you say, to be “surreal”, “off-beat”, “trippy”, “filled with weird action”, and “hilariously insane”, then it failed to do so.
My previous post, in which I simply repeated your argument but with a few choice modifications, was to prove a point. Impugning my tastes does not magically make Dead Leaves a better show. And asserting that you have to use some sort of “wacky, zany, insane, non sequitur, absurd” metric to judge it is nonsense. A story succeeds or fails on its own merits, and all the mental gymnastics in the world doesn’t make a meaningless trifle into a profound work of art, if the artistic intention simply isn’t there. That’s what Dead Leaves is. Sound and fury, signifying nothing, and it’s not even entertaining in its emptiness.
what “artistic intention” do you think Panty & Stocking had?
Apparently the creators are on record that the idea of the show was to include every vulgar joke possible, which I think they did a decent job at. But if you examine the series a little closer, you can see some thematic content that I think merits closer investigation. I think it’s appropriate that the main characters share the family name of Anarchy. In Panty and Stocking, the angelic characters don’t conform to social norms (Panty’s libidinousness, Stocking’s gluttony), and yet they’re the heroes of the show. On the flip side, the demon sisters speak formal Japanese and maintain an aura of properness; they constantly go on and on about conforming to the RRRRRRRULEs. And the “Vomitting Point” episode is clearly a commentary on the corrupt nature of the urban, salaryman existence, where his misplaced duty to a job he’s bad at prevents him from fulfilling his obligations to his family. All in all, I’d say the show is an act of symbolic rebellion against a society with stringent expectations regarding rules and social mores, in addition to the obvious taboo-breaking comedy that it attempts. And I think if you’re willing to do a close reading, you’d find more evidence to support that hypothesis. This is about as deep as I can go at the moment, though. I’m on my lunchbreak.
[Don’t change your username and email address to pretend you’re someone else entirely. I’m reverting it back from “Dead Leaves White Knight.” Reflect on the fact that you’ve been banned from ANN and are currently on probation at SA. –Daryl]
You could say the exact same thing about Dead Leaves considering it’s about incredibly weird-looking mutants slaughtering same-faced, almost robotic people – Imaishi’s work has always had a certain amount of symbolism to it, but that’s far from being the focus and it’s really only there to look cool, the only exception being Gurren Lagann. Osamu Kobayashi’s episode (the one with the radically different art style) being totally different from the rest of the show was the entire joke – you have this cartoony, escapist “mindless fun” show and suddenly you get a face full of grim realism.
But the end I think it’s fairly obvious that you’re hell-bent on never changing your mind so I probably won’t bother leaving more comments here. [The record will show you left 6 more comments after this one. It’s cool; I can ensure you live up to your word! –Daryl]
Actually, I knew that my posts had reached banworthy territory when I initially got banned from ANN… I reregistered and worded the exact same things in a different way and hey, my account is still there.
Not sure what possessed you to do all this internet detective work on me [Answer: the fact that you’ve made 17 posts to complain about something that isn’t even the main topic of this podcast, thus completely turning the entire conversation to garbage –Daryl], but if there’s one thing I learned from this is that I should always avoid any and all snarky commentary when trying to criticize someone no matter what. I’ll admit that I was a little offended when I heard that Kanada podcast, hence my reaction… but instead of making you think about it, it naturally only made you mad at me because I came off as way more of an indignant fanboy than someone who thought you made a mistake and hoped that you would admit to it.
So I haven’t changed my mind and I still think the you and your friends made were totally unfit, but I’m also hugely at fault here for presenting my points in an utterly horrible way and then going off to bad-mouth you on 4chan.
and I accidentally posted with my kawaii uguu moe sankakucomplex troll account avatar that is now oddly enough attached to my email and pops up whenever I type it to comment on a blog
No, you really couldn’t, because that interpretation isn’t really anchored in the show. You’d need to provide more evidence to back up that assertion. Listen to yourself. Symbolism that’s only designed to look cool? How is that a positive quality?
I’m perfectly willing to change my mind, but you’re going to have to work to convince me. If you want me to think Dead Leaves is worthwhile, that it’s on par in terms of quality with Panty and Stocking or Gurren Lagaan, then you need to give me a good reason to believe so. So far the only positive quality you’ve proposed in its favor is it’s unique look, which everyone already agrees that it has. If there’s nothing more to the show than that, I think it can be safely dismissed as eye candy and nothing more.
OK, guys? WTF was that about at the end, the smooth club beat version of “I Will Survive” ? If that was any more gay…well, I won’t say what might have happened! But it would have been gay!
I had to fire up my iTunes and power through the entire Hokuto no Ken song collection and three Ichiro Mizuki CDs to get that out of my head! Don’t do that crap!
For those of you wondering who this enthusiastic “Diebuster” fella is, he has apparently been making AWO threads on 4chan for weeks now. If you search for awo or daryl in the archives he seems to have made all the threads and posts regarding awo.
In one of the posts he talks about how he wants to change peoples mind in the anime fandom for the better. He apparently plans to do this by showing people how shitty of a podcast awo is, on 4chan, a place that already hates bloggers and podcasts.
AWO has gotten their very own V for Vendetta guy. Except this one is into shota
In all fairness, assassinating the dude’s character doesn’t actually invalidate his argument.
That being said, I’m not sure what his argument is, or even if he’s making one. It seems he just doesn’t agree with the dismissal of Dead Leaves as a bad show. But he hasn’t yet provided a reason for why Dead Leaves should be considered good. Instead he’s questioned the validity of criticism in general – an untenable position, in my opinion – attempted an argumentum ad populem by appealing to MAL and ANN – neither of which validate the quality of Dead Leaves, and murmured something about giving credit where credit is due.
The sad thing is that most of the people decrying Dead Leaves have already conceded that it has a unique look. There’s the credit where credit is due. But that’s the only quality that the show has going for it, and we don’t think that’s enough to merit giving Dead Leaves further consideration. We’re dismissing it because after waying the positives and negatives as we perceive them, we believe it deserves to be dismissed.
If you still like the show, that’s fine. It’s okay to like whatever you like, even terrible things. I like Tank Girl, but it’s still a terrible movie. Me liking it does not make it a better film that it actually is. It’s not difficult to separate your personal enjoyment or dislike of something from its technical qualities. I’d argue that doing so is at the heart of criticism.
That second comment is hilarious. “What the hell is Anime World Order?” More people don’t know about Google than I thought.
I’m pretty sure that Daryl Surat doesn’t need a defence force.
You sir, have raped the spirit of Cmdr. Ace Hunter that you were supposed to nurture.
I just finished Patlabor the TV series. I thought it was ok. Some episodes were kind of boring like real police work. And I’d argue Dougram is real robot taken to the ideal as it does not feature some of the more fantastical elements Votoms is known for. Dougram is kind of dry though as it is a world where politicians have the most power and tactics play a large role in all the combat.
I will not argue further but I’d just like to apologize for acting like a total dick here. I still stand by a lot of what I said… but being a smug shitposter is not the way to attempt to get someone to acknowledge your position and potentially change their mind to some extent.
Yeah just like Alex on Anime Pacific said, I’m not really much of a dude who could watch that stylized show. It’s just not for me. I can see it’s different and one can appreciate that, but seeing as Gainax has done better in the past (ie: TTGL), I personally feel this is a step in the wrong direction in this day and age. It’s grabbing people, yes, but I don’t think it’s going anywhere outside the internet. Like on TV for example and that’s kind of counter intuitive in my personal opinion. Also my dislike of Gainax (as a company) certainly doesn’t help (I still bought dvds to TTGL).
Also I’d just like to officially say that I am an addict of the show.
Just out of curiosity, who the heck is singing that version of “I Will Survive” that was tagged on to the end of the episode?
Gainax has a few gems like you guys stated. FLCL comes to mind?
Anyway the few eps of Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt I have seen in some odd reason has gripped me. Cant wait to see more. ^_^